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Questions about shaft shots

Ok first i have to say that im against making shaft shot count. For me scoring in this sport is all about shooting from the business end, and if we get rid of wheel shot, i don't see the logic of including shaft shot. Also if the matter was for the ref to call it a real shot or not, i would just add a rule who say "if there is a doubt for the ref if it was a regular shot or not, he have to call it a regular shot".

now my questions about it:
1) -Can a raclette shot count it? When people lay down the whole stick on the ground to block shots or pass, they made it with the shaft 95% of the time. In this situation if they rotate they wirst and shot this way, can it count as a regular shot?

2)- The whole shaft count in the rule? so what if a player open is hand to slap it to the nets with the handle of the shaft, does it count as a goal? By opening his hand, i mean that the player still handle the mallet by the thumb and the index finger but open the 3 other other fingers to make the handle hit the ball.

3) Lil' bit like 2), what if people begin to shoot really close from their hand, and sometimes even scoring by punching the ball directly from gloves? Don't we gonna have the same troubles as before to determinate if it was a legal shot or not? ("man it was the shaft," "no it was your glove")
So in the same way we should go a step further and allow punching the ball by hand to score, to avoid ref' issues?

I'll say it now and I'll continue saying it ad nauseum: get rid of first to five and count anything that crosses the line (although I'd be open to disallowing obvious handling of the ball with the hand).

With that aside, based on the current rules (NAH v3.3) here's how I would call the situations.

1) If the player strikes the ball (as opposed to pushing it), the raclette shot counts. Reference §4.1.1 As a referee, I'd be looking for an elastic collision between the shaft and the ball

2) If the player actually uses the shaft, the shot counts. §4.1.1 again. This is a much harder call. If it were my call and neither myself nor the goal judge could see the play, I would go with whether I heard the sound of a shaft shot or not. If the ball truly goes off the shaft and not the palm, there should be a distinctive sound (though rubber grips might muffle this). This would likely be called no goal unless it was super obvious that no palm/glove was used.

3) Gloved shots do not count. §4.1.2 Like you note, we will most definitely have the same issues we've been facing for a while.

In my mind, consistency is the key to quality reffing. Consistency in refereeing comes from two places - consistent rules and consistent calls. For consistent rules, we would have to say either everything counts or only shots from the business end count because everything else introduces grey areas. For consistent calls, we must have trained/experienced refs willing to make calls. Why don't we make the ref's life easier by making the call easier?

nico.p wrote:

Why don't we make the ref's life easier by making the call easier?

If there even is one

SKID ROW // ACT LIKE YOU
http://www.skidphoto.com

Shaft shots bum me out, man. I wish people didn't like them so much. Sad me.

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fixcraft.net

Agreed. I could be wrong, but I thought the reasoning for legalizing shaft shots was to sort of retroactively justify the winning goal from MW3. I still think we need to get rid of shaft shots, and I'm not really sure how that rule got passed without a lot of public discussion. Hopefully in 2014 we can remove this stain on the rulebook.

YOU COULD HEAR THE POP!!#!#!#!!!!!

The rule got passed without public discussion because nothing changes (or gets discussed) during public discussions. Your best bet is not this forum, but rather petitioning your regional rep (Make them work for you!!!!!) and harassing the powers that be this summer/fall. Email, fb, text message, snapchat, whatever it takes. This isn't just directed at you; everyone here is up in arms about something that is or isn't in the rules. Be proactive.

.

Relax dood. I wasnt there so I dint hear any pop. I did see a shaky video tho. And Im on topic to this thread. As for talkin to my rep, Im curious how many ppl asked their reps last year to 'legalize shaft shots' for 2013...

I was just making a joke about the pop.

I am also curious, seems to me like the rule was never really talked about until it was in the books. Having watched a lot of polo I'd say its rare to see.

Personally I don't think that they should count. With the frequency I've seen them I'm curious to see what, if anything happens because the rule is on the books for this year at least.

Keep your standards low, and morale high.

I don't agree with the sentiment that no positive feedback comes out of the forums regarding rules. I've seen some.

I think that if nah just takes a "write your congressperson" approach then they are turning their back on a while hard to sift through but extraordinarily valuable resource. Working with you're regional reps is great too, but I'd advise nah to not turn it's back on the forums.

Keep your standards low, and morale high.

e.g.

International Players

Keep your standards low, and morale high.

Moving forward into 2014, I would like to approach the rule set much in the same way we did for the refinement of the 2013 set. Anyone who is on this site knows I'm on here all the time, I obviously view this forum and people's opinions here as a valuable resource. I've been a bit busy moving and starting a new job but I am going to get the ball rolling BEFORE NA's this year with an outline of discussions I'd like to have with the community here on LOBP and a time frame for when I want people's opinions to be voiced by. Part of this will be open polls that I will ask people to vote in, and the other part will be just good old LOBP shit talking.

This site DOES matter, and the things that people talk about here do help to shape the viewpoints of everyone involved. I think that the representative democracy of NAH has lead to some disconnect from what people can actually do to help. I want everyone to have a say and a vote, even if it's just for the polling of public opinion. Discussions here are not a waste of time and I think they are very, very important!

Things I want to talk about will include:
-The future of what we call a shot (shaft shots, mainly)
-Adding to the unsportsmanlike conduct section to include violence
-High Sticking
-Time out restructure
-Court description and REQUIREMENTS
-Restarting play after ball goes out (Is half court too much? etc...)

Ideally, every NAH player should have a vote in all matters that interest them. I wish that were more so the case and maybe one day the organization will be that way. Members get votes. But right now at least we can use league to figure stuff out and I'm going to keep trying to move the ruleset forward. I've written too much.

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fixcraft.net

If you don't X2 you can't complain...

One I'd like to add: Starting jousts from the line instead of the back boards. Not for discussion here but a couple europeans have approached me about this and I feel like there is merit to changing it back to goal line, e.g. track stand starts, etc... just stuff for people to be thinking about and I'll get a thread going soon.

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fixcraft.net

The only reason I can think of for starting from the wall and not the goal line, is on courts where there is not a visible goal line extending boards-to-boards.

On courts where there is a goal line, starting on the back wall is highly illogical.

Legalize Hand Throws - 2014

So much this.

Not to get too far off topic, but I believe the reasoning behind starting with the back tire against the wall, instead of front tire on the line, was to more accurately see if someone was jumping the gun on a Joust.

slipping it in (the shaft rule) was some texas republican earmark bullshit.

kristxw wrote:

slipping it in (the shaft rule) was some texas republican earmark bullshit.

yea but in our case texas = rulemaking midwest weirdo kids.

i'd rather score with the shaft of my girlfriends cats dick

Not to get too off topic here, but I think NAH really needs to set up a public calendar that clearly states when rules are gonna be discussed with us, with the board, and especially when the board is gonna vote on them. Perhaps a 2month window beginning after worlds. That way we all know when to bug our reps, and when to chime in publicly with our concerns. In the past there was a period of public comment (remember when we had to decide on what the proper height and width of a net should be?) so we're not broadsided by these changes to our game after the fact. I know the rules committee is working hard for us here, but a little more transparency would go a long way with the Poloverse.

Read my comment, homie! #12.

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fixcraft.net

What Kruse said!

Nick Kruse wrote:

Ideally, every NAH player should have a vote in all matters that interest them. I wish that were more so the case and maybe one day the organization will be that way. Members get votes.

Alex Dash wrote:

I think NAH really needs to set up a public calendar that clearly states when rules are gonna be discussed with us, with the board, and especially when the board is gonna vote on them. Perhaps a 2month window beginning after worlds. That way we all know when to bug our reps, and when to chime in publicly with our concerns. In the past there was a period of public comment......I know the rules committee is working hard for us here, but a little more transparency would go a long way with the Poloverse.

NAH is currently working on a plan for rules sessions, possibly even making each issue a referendum. The sketch looks like this so far:

  • November to February time frame.
  • During this time, changes to the rules would be proposed and voted upon.
  • These rules would remain in effect for the season and would be eligible for review and re-vote during the next rules session.

Nick and Alex are right on point here, thanks gents.

Thas wassup