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Podium: Schedule Strength

Podium now supports two Swiss ranking methods: Goal Differential and Schedule Strength. With Schedule Strength, the teams are sorted by: [Points, sP, sDelta]

* sP = the sum of a team's opponent's points
* sDelta = the sum of a team's opponent's goal differentials

Other updates

- Instant Mix teams will always stay at the bottom of the list, no matter what the record actually is. Should prevent Slayer Instant Mix teams from messing up any seeding...

- See the last 2 years of tourneys that have run on Podium (nearly 40). Click "more..." under Recent Tourneys in the footer

Fuck yes.
Thank you, Vince

Hey, we should talk about the math behind this at some time. Buchholz is just one type of SoS ranking and I hope you used it. See you tomorrow night at polo!


I used Schedule Strength in our tournament this weekend, the Halloween Bench Minor.

We only played 3 rounds, so it wasn't really a full test of it, but it worked great.

Already it seemed to be more accurate than GD/GS, so I'm really happy with it.

For example


After 3 rounds, Vampires (my team) and Brides of Chukker were equal on points.

We had a -9 GD, they had a -2 GD, so in the old system they would be ahead of us.

But we'd played the top team (the only team not to have lost a game), and the 3rd team. They'd played the 2nd and 4th team.

So with SS, we were ranked above them, as the teams we'd played had more points.

The same goes for the teams tied in 2/3/4 after Swiss, they had played quite different sets of teams, and the one with the hardest games was top of the 3.

That ranking was confirmed, when the top of those 3 teams ended up doing the best in the single elim

Thank you for the Instant Mix on the bottom thang.

Okay catfish, I'm going to move my mouth like this...

http://followpodium.com its better than http://challonge.com/?

Yes, a lot better, for so many reasons, that I can't be bothered to list them all.

No-one should ever use Challonge for bike polo ever again.


Is there an explanation of the Maths behind this?

Just out of curiosity, did we use Schedule Strength at Ballwhackers?

Ball Whackers used Goal Differential.

You can tell by looking at the results column: Δ, G stand for differential and goals. sP, sΔ stand for Strength Points and Strength Differential

Thanks Vince, I understand the scoring, but for the life of me I can't reverse engineer the results I'm getting in the sandbox to maths equations. The first round is easy enough to figure out, but if I apply the same maths to the second round, I'm lost.

I realise you spend a lot of time on this (and it's a great system) so I won't bother you for lengthy explanations, but is there somewhere that explains the maths or method you used to calculate sP, sΔ? So far researching the Buchholz system hasn't given me much insight.

Perhaps the algorithm isn't as simple as I'm assuming, or it is and either way I should just go play polo.

* sP = the sum of a team's opponent's points
* sDelta = the sum of a team's opponent's goal differentials

So you need to factor in the teams a team has played, and how many points and goals they have.

I'm happy to run you through it, on the sandbox.


On the Sandbox, currently 3 rounds have been played.

Team 3 have 3 points, a sP of 10, and a sΔ of 0.

They have played, Team 12, Team 6, Team 1

Team 12 have 1 points, Team 6 have 3 points, Team 1 have 6 points = 10 points in total

Team 12 have a GD of -6, Team 6 have a GD of +2, Team 1 have a GD of +4 = 0 in total.

It would probably make things a little clearer if there was a way to display a team's GD and points.

Thanks John. I was only working with the values presented on podium which is where I was going wrong.

So now, obviously, you need the teams points and GD to rank teams and calculate sP and sΔ (which are only used for tie breaking)... makes sense now.

I have it working in a spreadsheet , which I wanted to use as a local backup to keep scores if we lose internet connection on the day.

Do other people with 3rd world internet connections keep local copies of scores or does Podium run locally without connection once loaded?

guess I could disconnect and find out.... nope... needs a connection

Swiss rounds are easily done without a computer or internet:


You could replicate or adapt this on your own. I really don't like having to rely on computers, wireless, and smartphones during a tourney. A 3'x4' piece of cardboard costs nothing and has a lot of advantages over a 15" screen.

Each to his own, but I’m all for making things easy and I'm not anticipating enough brain cells for running an iCardboard

we had first world connectivity and still wrote scores down in a notebook. it's easy insurance against connectivity problems, power outages, dumbass organizers, etc.

Yes, it does require the internet.

It is always worth noting down scores on paper in any case, just as a hard copy, I've seen people enter scores incorrectly.

From looking at podium, ballwhackers used swiss rounds. Podium is very cool btw.